Contact ESPN and tell them to bench their transphobic radio hosts
THE GUERRILLA ANGEL REPORT — [Updated -- Czaban and Pollin suspended. See below.] “That could be a Russian chick” and “I think ‘it’ is the politically correct term” said ESPN radio’s Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin describing transgender college basketball player Gabrielle Ludwig during a show on Dec. 6th.
According to some listeners, it was among the nastiest and horrifying transphobic rants they ever heard.
National Center for Lesbian Rights’ Helen Carroll: “The horrific comments by ESPN’s Radio’s Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin show a level of disrespect and harmful rhetoric that is inexcusable. They called Gabrielle Ludwig, transgender California Community College student-athlete, “it”. This and their entire transphobic rant shows a level of ignorance and just plain ‘meanness’ that I try to stay away from. Unfortunately, the many transgender sports participants I have had the privilege to work with, are not shielded from hateful people such as Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin.”
News reports say they later made a short 10-second apology for using the word “it”. However, some insist that the apology wasn’t enough.
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UPDATED Dec 11, 2012: SteveCzaban and Andy Pollin have been suspended. This is from Outsports.com:
“From ESPN 980 has suspended radio hosts Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin for their heinous attack on Gabrielle Ludwig and other transgender athletes on their Dec. 6 show. The station has released this statement:
We strongly believe two of our employees crossed the line when discussing a tanssexual person on their program last Thursday. Such intolerance and insensitivity will never be tolerated by this company. Due to the nature of their conversation, the pair have been temporarily removed from ESPN980′s Sports Reporter program.”
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ESPN local station manager (Washington DC): management@espn980.com
ESPN Headquarters: http://espn.go.com/espn/contact 1-888-549-3776
Mail:
ESPN Viewer Response
ESPN Plaza
Bristol, CT 06010
More details: [TRIGGER WARNING!] ESPN Radio’s Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin in horrific anti-transgender rant – Outsports.
Contact ESPN and tell them to bench their transphobic radio hosts
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Filed under: Transgender, Transsexual, Trans, Violence, Hate, Exploitation, Dehumanizing, National Center for Lesbian Rights, espn, Helen Carroll, Steve Czaban, Andy Pollin, russian chick, espn radio, Gabrielle Ludwig
Reblogged this on Cait.
Hey Cait, thanks for all the reblogging!
Is it possible t hear what they said? x
Yes, click on the Outsports link above. It’s the one with the Trigger Warning. Feel free to come back and tell me what else they said. I didn’t want to listen to it.
Horrible, horrible verbal attack on Gabrielle and ALL of our community!!
These statements are not a surprise. They merely reflect what many think. There is an issue here though. It seems a little unfair for trans women to compete in female athletic events. They are stronger and carry the muscle mass and skeleton of a man. This does give then an unfair advantage. For that reason I do not support it.
Amber, not true. Transwomen carry the bones (but then most fall within the upper end of the natural female spectrum any way), but not the muscle. Muscle mass is the same as any woman. There is also the added bonus of having less testosterone in their system than biological women. This has a knock-on effect of making energy production a lot slower (they can suddenly crash in energy levels).
*repost because I put it in the wrong box.
Amber I’ve heard this argument before and it seems to have a logical sense, but everyone person is born with bioloigcal advatages and disadvantages. For instance I am a FTM trans man and because of my gentic make up I’m too small for football, however I was still ableto play with the boys despite my female height. And once a transgender person starts hormone therapy the levels of test, and estro change significantly. So she may have the height of a male but she wouldn’t have an unfair advatage more than any tall bio female has.
Ok, seriously, how can you have an opinion this strong without researching ANYTHING? Or do you think it’s OK to be discriminatory based on PURE assumption and guesswork? The levels of hormones transwomen and transman possess are of “biological” (excuse the term) levels. Loss of muscle mass is pretty standard with transwomen, and vice versa with transmen.
Ok, seriously, how can you have an opinion this strong without researching ANYTHING? Or do you think it’s OK to be discriminatory based on PURE assumption and guesswork? The levels of hormones transwomen and transman possess are of “biological” (excuse the term) levels. Loss of muscle mass is pretty standard with transwomen, and vice versa with transmen.
No, I dont. But then that is not what i am basing my position on. Hormone levels are one small component in determining athletic ability. On their own they mean little. That is why this is a diffcult and controversial issue. In spite of having been transitioned for some time and only identifying as female I still believe in being fair to all whatever kind of body one is born with.
Amber, not true. Transwomen carry the bones (but then most fall within the upper end of the natural female spectrum any way), but not the muscle. Muscle mass is the same as any woman. There is also the added bonus of having less testosterone in their system than biological women. This has a knock-on effect of making energy production a lot slower (they can suddenly crash in energy levels).
They should be fired!
Actually Sophie trans women often do carry more muscle mass than women will without exogenous testosterone. Going on hormones does feminize but the body remains male in spite of this. Bear in mind that at the level of professional and serious athlete we are talking about those who are exceptional, not the average.
This is actually not true at all, and the data doesn’t agree with what you’re saying.
Please feel free to post a link to support your position. Remember not all trans people have GRS or take large doses of androgen blockers.
If you’re going to keep that in mind then you also have to bear in mind that only trans people that HAVE had GRS and have taken hormones for at least two years are usually allowed to participate in professional sports.
http://www.eje.org/content/151/4/425.full.pdf
This only looks at muscle mass. It doesn’t take into account other factors such as energy levels and other metabolic processes.
Actually, forget that. It DOES look at other factors, clearly showing a much lower IGF-1, Testosterone serum level and haemoglobin level for post-treatment MtF transsexuals over pre-treatment FtMs.
Those ignorant, arrogant s.o.b.s! What I hope for these men is not nice, and probably not legal. (Lose their jobs, never work in any kind of broadcasting again). To anyone who might think it was a bit of harmless fun – you’re wrong, and to not recognize how terrible this incident is makes you busted too.
What these people said is horrid but lets keep it in perspective. They are only words, they didnt kill anyone or abuse them physically. Loosing their jobs – feels right to me – banned for life? Way too much. I dont think it was terrible and I am not busted. It was definetly ignorant but no worse than what many people think and say every day. I prefer to change minds, not beat them into submission.
Sophie, I am aware of this study which is very limited in its sample size. Here is a quote from the synopsis
Androgen
deprivation of M–F decreased muscle mass, increasing the overlap with untreated F–M, but mean
muscle mass remained significantly higher in M–F than in F–M.
Which supports my position, not yours. I was a semi professional athlete for many years and a coach so I have some knowledge in these matters. I am also a trans woman.
Um, no, it supports what has been said by me. The muscle mass is comparable (possible slightly larger due to body size being larger, and having to carry around the bones), but looking at what’s in the blood gives a clear picture that post-treatment MtF transsexuals are at a disadvantage. IGF-1 is used for muscle growth and a higher haemoglobin concentration increases aerobic performance. Taking artificial haemoglobin increasers is an illegal performance enhancing drug.
Your position is totally irrelevant. You have no studied this topic, and unless you also happen to have a PhD I’d suggest you leave interpreting journal articles to people that can obviously read. Sorry!
The problem with studies such as this is that they do not evaluate thew potential od the body to develop and maintain supra musculature. A simple way to understand this is to consider female body builders. They take exogenous testosterone but in spite of this remain incapable of developing muscle mass equivalent to that of a male. The reason is that while exogenous hormones effect the body profoundly they cannot overcome the fundamental differences in physiology.
And this is not a genetic thing, but a blood chemical thing. Genetics only encode what organs our bodies produce, and the chemicals it produces/processes. If you are (even artificially) preventing the body from producing certain chemicals and introducing external hormones (as in transsexuals) then you will get massively altered effects. MtF transsexuals will struggle just as much (if not more) than biological female athletes to put on, and maintain, muscle. Any muscle that they do have will, intrinsically, be less efficient and therefore are more likely to be dead weight.
You seem to be under the impression that muscle mass is some magic substance. It really isn’t. If your muscles are less effective then all they are is extra weight to carry.
As usual, when any trans person has a position which contradicts the prevailing belief that we are identical to females the conversation quickly devolves into insults. I should have known better. BTW I dont have a Phd, just a masters degree, but I can read. You have only convinced me that I am correct which is what always happens when you insult someone. Poorly played.
I’ll be sure to cry into my pillow tonight. I’m not trying to convince you, only presenting you with the facts. You are denying the facts and the only conclusion I can come to is that you don’t want to look at them. It’s fine – I’m sure we’ll be get over this rather quickly.
I’ve never made the claim that there is no difference, only that the difference you claim is not backed up by facts. This I’ve shown you. Muscle mass is muscle mass. It represents nothing but itself, unless taken into consideration with other things. I’ve shown you the things you asked me to show you – that the blood levels of various chemicals is lower in MtF transsexuals than biologically born females. Therefore, any advantage that you claimed MtF transsexuals have in muscle mass is totally irrelevant.
As an athlete with experience in these matters I know I have the right of this. Actually I didnt ask for a technical study on blood hormone levels or measurements of muscle mass. I merely asked for the basis for your opinions. Now I know.
Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’ll keep the scientific data on my side, you can have your own experiences.
Howard Cosell Commet I believe ended his career as this comment should end, Czaban & Pollin’s careers
I only posted this as I was not able to find an article, The comment was wrong as is Czabans and Pollins and they should be done.
Well, its never possible to overcome prejudice with reason. The problem Sophie, even if this tiny study of a tiny group of people is correct (the sample sizes used are far too small to draw any meaningful conclusions) is that it tries to boil down athletic ability to hormone levels and muscle mass. This is terribly over simplistic which is why this area remains controversial. This matter is far from decided and as you demonstrated the science is weak to non existent.
Meanwhile, as I am in a position to promote fairness and influence decision making I will continue to promote fairness over political correctness in the absence of convincing science to the contrary.
I sent an email to the management at the address provided, and received a reply indicated that the pair have been removed from their positions (the reply did say temporarily, however). But at least a positive step?
Amber, taking the contrarian position does not make you right by default and going against “political correctness” is an anti-intellectual straw man. Neither current science nor anecdotal evidence is on your side, unless you’re going to tell me Michelle Dumaresq has started doing better than at-best average finishes..?
Im not aware of any science that contradicts my position in a convincing fashion. It is the prevailing point of view in professional and competitve amateur athletics. My colleagues and I have discussed this often and while not the universal point of view, it is the most common. Referencing the results of one individual is by defintion anecdotal. The issue, for me, is not to make a very small number of trans people feel good but to protect the inegrity of womens athletics. In the absence of truly meaningful science I see no reason to change my mind. However, I acknowledge that our understanding of transsexuality continues to evolve and perhaps one day there will be reason to change my mind. In the meantime I will continue to lobby against any changes to the status quo.
[...] ESPN Radio Hosts Unleash Horrifying Anti-Transgender Rant On Player: Hosts Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin were suspended following their transphobic remarks on the air [...]
[...] ESPN Radio Hosts Unleash Horrifying Anti-Transgender Rant On Player: Hosts Steve Czaban and Andy Pollin were suspended following their transphobic remarks on the air [...]